So! As stated earlier, drysift got back to me. If you haven’t read the first part, please do so – otherwise, if you enjoy things being way out of context or you’ve already caught up, the reply and my rebuttal can be found after the jump. Before I go further, a quick disclaimer: I know this person is not the entire Occupy movement, and I would -love- to speak to an Occupy San Diego person especially regarding some of my issues. As long as that person doesn’t behave like drysift here.
Public call to BacktoAmerica: I am very interested in giving you space and air time to air your case if you so wish.
As I said I would do, here is drysift’s response in its entirety before I address specific points. Like before, this was a private message via youtube.
“Re: Channel censored me for speaking truth.I find it biased that you didn’t bother to post any of BacktoAmerica’s comments, as they are filled with “venom” as you call it. You didn’t even bother to mention that I asked her to debate LIVE on tinychat, which she silently (for a change) avoided by blocking me. This speaks volumes about her credibility. I would encourage you to do more research, and watch her other videos where she follows people as they are walking away from her. That is called harassment; a crime that this particular Tea Partier enjoys to commit. You are missing half the story, so honestly I can’t respect your blog, and I don’t care to debate with cowards who quote me out of context. This is a very typical conservative, biased media tactic, but do I care? No, Because the people who read your blog are likely as partial as you. Furthermore, if you had a counter on your blog, it would probably read “002” because you and I are the only people reading it.You could really benefit from brushing up on world history, and civil disobedience, but it would appear you’re busy playing video games.End of conversation. Have a nice life.”
Oh boy. Let’s start unraveling this from the beginning.
First off, before I get into anything else – note that this was a private message in what should be understood at this point is a conversation out in the open. Intentionally or not, drysift is minimizing their exposure. There’s no way for you the reader to directly talk with them outside of going out of your way and off this site to do so. You’ll quickly note this a running theme.
“I find it biased that you didn’t bother to post any of BacktoAmerica’s comments, as they are filled with “venom” as you call it.”
Now normally, drysift would have a great point here. Pulling comments out of context is usually a very poor way of making points, HOWEVER. Every single comment of theirs I pulled were from a video that I referenced, and I even provided a direct link to the comment thread for people to go see themselves. In addition, I posted the entirety of the comments I chose to share, rather then snipping a sentence here and there. If I could have, I would have made those direct links to contextual comment threads – but Youtube doesn’t allow for such things. That’s why we’re over here!
You miss the point I was trying to establish, which was that your general running theme in your comments when I entered the discussion was an extremely hostile attitude. No matter how pissed off or angry you are, if you want people to take you seriously and see you as mature and approachable, you measure your words. In every circumstance. It takes discipline, it’s not a lot of fun, but you come off as credible and at the very least open to other thought. I still contend that you are a very close minded person with a persecution complex.
Calling for death and relishing thoughts of violence are ugly and reprehensible no matter who does it. Anyone of any political stripe should avoid falling back on that rhetoric and giving in to anger. It may feel good in the moment, it may make you feel satisfied and better, but in the end it’s really not productive. It gives your opponents reasons to belittle and ignore you, and it spooks people trying to learn more about you. It also attracts people who do savor violence and hatred.
So, fine, let’s assume that BacktoAmerica’s comments somehow justified calls for her death. Allow me to pull a sampling of her comments – and folks, apparently because drysift thinks you need your hand held through the process of personal research, go to the comment thread. Hit ‘ctrl f’. In the search bar, tap in ‘drysift’ and scroll around. Then type in ‘BacktoAmerica’ and scroll around. Now let’s hear from BacktoAmerica’s responses to drysift:
Actually, because drysift is so offended about a lack of context, allow me to share their first comment on the thread directed at BacktoAmerica! Who, by this point, had posted only two short comments that weren’t controversial at all.
“@BacktoAmerica Hahaha all your supporters here seem to want to sue. I think it’s YOU Tea Baggers who “rely on government” to protect you from all the people who hate you.”Tired of paying for all you”
There again, you contradict what you say, because you bible-thumping drones are responsible for pushing non-constitutional legislation. You’d be happy to pay for your kids to sit in jail for pot, as you guzzle down toxic solvents, but not for sick and dying cancer and MS patients like my mother.” -drysift
Very civil, very polite. Not full of insults or name calling or coming off as a troll at all. Allow me to post the evolution of the exchange:
@drysift seriously, like what you say matters, we are tired of paying for all you little freeloader, you are entitled to nothing! What the government gives it can also take away. We tea partiers will start our own communities and take care of only us and you dependent little punks, sorry excuses for human being will shrivel up and die, because you rely on GOVERNMENT not yourself! You selfish little pukes! – BacktoAmerica
@BacktoAmerica Hahaha playing by your rationale, the tax would only come out of your pocket anyway. You’re such a goon. You Tea Partiers love to shoot your own foot, and then blame your kids. I’m literally laughing at your fallacious arguments. -drysift
@drysift “TAX THE YOUTH” !!!!!!!!! -BacktoAmerica
Now maybe you could say BacktoAmerica’s comments about people shriveling up and dying was a little excessive – but not she’s not calling for violence, she’s not saying that she will go out there and kill them or telling other people to do so. She’s citing a potential consequence of the party’s own actions. Inciteful, but not ludicrously so.
drysift parries with…well, not really much of anything. Their statement doesn’t make much sense and is just escalation. More insults, more goading, and it works to a point, getting that response.
There’s a break in the comments, and then:
@BacktoAmerica I can hardly wait to read of your abuse in a nursing home somewhere. Generation Y is going to punish you for demeaning the movement we started to combat the corruption your lazy generation left us with. Mark my words, you will suffer like you’ve made us suffer.
– Educated, young American prospect -drysift
That’s the problem they have nothing to lose, misery wants company -BacktoAmerica
@BacktoAmerica I find it funny how you call the woman an Occupier in the title, but in your comments you refer to her as a homeless? Is Occupy supposed to be held accountable for the homeless baby boomers that your generation left for dead? I don’t blame you for being ignorant. Your generation was raised on the biased boob tube. lol -drysift
@BacktoAmerica Take your bullshit and go home crybaby.-drysift
More insults. drysift misses a point here – in the video description they’re cited as homeless – BacktoAmerica was seeming to say that the occupy people, through the act of occupying, were rendering themselves homeless and/or attracting some of the normal homeless under their wing.
This is a sticking point with drysift. Because they are homeless, they’re ruining the image of Occupy. So why are they there? Why are you allowing them to be there and represent you with their opinions that very ‘oddly’ seem to coincide with yours? And again, we see more insults.
@drysift That is what I was doing reaching out and got cold cocked!! So, be quite! These people have no agenda but to steal, sit on their butts , complain and take hand outs. The problem is the Big business, UNIONS and lobbyist BUY politicians and no longer represent me or you. DENOUNCE these lawless anarchist , they we can talk!!! I did nothing to deserve being hit by a homeless, drug addict, claiming to be an Occupying protester. I AM NOT THE BAD GUY HERE, the OCCUPY MOVEMENT IS! -BacktoAmerica
Wait a second here! BacktoAmerica was the one who got punched because she was for sure the one taking the video? WELL THAT EXPLAINS SOME THINGS DOESN’T IT? She’s pissed, and very understandably so – but even then she doesn’t start lashing out to the degree that drysift has. If you are seriously trying to equate her statements with yours and say they are equal in bile, you’re a damn child. Perhaps BacktoAmerica should have measured her statements more, but she’s clearly being incited, and -was- attacked. We can understand her anger.
drysift, if you even read this – Why don’t you start pulling specifics? I’m doing an awful lot of work for you. BacktoAmerica’s statements were inciteful? Fine. Which ones? Show me. Justify yourself.
…Moving on! And goodness, we’re only on the second freaking sentence.
” You didn’t even bother to mention that I asked her to debate LIVE on tinychat, which she silently (for a change) avoided by blocking me.”
I saw that comment, which was posted waaaay up in the tree after you had well established yourself as a very combative person. What possible reason would BacktoAmerica have to engage with you at that point when you presented yourself as someone very willing to toss out insults, and likely not act in good faith?
I’m actually willing to spar with you, like I am here. Hell, I’ll even invite you to call on to my podcast tonight in the second hour. If you are so oppressed and being shut down by bias, why would I do this, even after all of what I’ve said so far?
There is such a thing as diffusing a discussion. It is entirely within BacktoAmerica’s rights to refuse to speak with you – on her video. You forget that I was blocked as well – and as I said, it was probably because I engaged you. And I’m not upset! It’s her video! It’s her comment thread! That’s why we’re here. No blocking. Nothing in the way. No “Censoring”.
On to sentence three! We’re making excellent progress, aren’t we folks?
“This speaks volumes about her credibility. I would encourage you to do more research, and watch her other videos where she follows people as they are walking away from her. That is called harassment; a crime that this particular Tea Partier enjoys to commit.”
She has 9 other videos. I’ll even invite my audience to go watch them and draw your own conclusions before I draw mine. One again – drysift throws out a charge with no solid reference! Let’s check that statement. Note that I am required to sift through the videos myself, and guess at just what drysift is referencing! Once again, I’m doing more legwork for them.
The first incident of alleged ‘harrassment’ occurs in this video, a roughly 8 minute compilation of protesters of the SB 1070 bill at ~2:30
That was harrassment? That guy is wandering around yelling at people to go back to Europe! He shoves his hand at the camera for a moment, then continues to wander around. If anything, that man almost committed assault. Unfortunately for him, yes, you can be filmed in public. If you’re upset about that and about your views being shown to the world, that’s just too bad.
At minute 4:20 – just something I HAD to point out. You have dueling chants – “US SUCKS! RAPE WAR blabla”. BacktoAmerica herself cries out “PEACE AND LIBERTY” and get a good USA chant going…which then gets parried with a “NAZI GERMANY” chant. ie, America sucks.
And THEN we have someone proudly claiming they’re a part of Aztlan! An extremist hispanic racial group pursuing the goal of ‘reconquista’. Arguably a racist based on the little exchange that follows, and while BacktoAmerica gets the last word, the other woman drifts away…and that’s that. Not really harrassment there, either.
There’s a moment in this video where she walks with a pair of ANSWER activists – who continue to engage her as they walk! Again, not harassment.
And of course, the video that started it all – in which, by the way, we have activists being filmed in a public space taking issue with legal activity and directly reacting with physical force – which is DIRECTLY ILLEGAL.
..and that’s it! THAT’S IT. Three, at best four incidents of so called ‘harassment’, the majority of which aren’t really anything at all. If anything, the people being filmed come out looking rather bad from those moments.
I’m open to being proven wrong drysift! But after this post – I’m done doing your work for you.
Your claims are baseless. You exaggerate and inflate little issues without linking to them – possibly hoping that I or anyone reading your comments will simply accept your claims at face value. And in the same breath – you downplay or simply ignore any belligerence or bad behavior from those on your side. Sorry, we’re not talking in vague generalities today. We’re sticking to specifics and facts to the point of painful tediousness today.
” You are missing half the story, so honestly I can’t respect your blog, and I don’t care to debate with cowards who quote me out of context. This is a very typical conservative, biased media tactic, but do I care? No, Because the people who read your blog are likely as partial as you.”
This could almost speak for itself. drysift, up to this point, I have devoted over 5,000 words to painstakingly dissecting your comments, referencing the things you told me too, pursuing the leads you have asked me to, even playing defense for you and pursuing your claims of harassment and how your argument of ‘b…but they did it too!’ was justified.
At this point your words are just laughable. I am going way, way, WAY out of my way to accommodate you. As said multiple times – I provided links. I provided prompts for the reader to dig into the source, and I established context in what I felt was a fair stance. Am I biased? Sure. Am I open about it? Uh huh. Do I still give you plenty of air time, and most importantly, the chance to respond? YEAH.
Quite simply, you are projecting your tactics onto me and onto my readers as you continue to throw out insults and belittlements. Who’s looking like a coward here, person who so far has not responded to my first reply in any meaningful or specific way?
“Furthermore, if you had a counter on your blog, it would probably read “002” because you and I are the only people reading it.”
As of the time you sent your message, 24 people had read the post. Right now, 34 people yesterday alone read the post, bringing this blog’s total lifetime views to 518. Congratulations, drysift, you alone are responsible for 5% of my blog’s lifetime traffic!
So you throw out more assumptions, ignore my other mediums of communication like my youtube channel and my podcast, and pretend that my audience doesn’t exist. Even though the site, right there in the upper right hand corner, lists lifetime views. Much like one of the protesters in BacktoAmerica’s videos – sorry, dear readers! I guess you don’t exist and thus you just don’t matter anymore. Darn.
“You could really benefit from brushing up on world history, and civil disobedience, but it would appear you’re busy playing video games.”
drysift, you are speaking with a HISTORY MAJOR. Much to my audience’s consternation, the last gaming video I posted was all the way back IN APRIL. This name calling thing isn’t working out all that well for you, is it? Keep making yourself look like an arrogant tool! I hardly have to type anything in response now!
“End of conversation. Have a nice life.”
…Typical. This is so very typical of radicals like you. You throw out a bunch of charges…and leave! Leave it all hanging out there, not bothering to want to listen to a reply or any kind of response. Because you’re just right, aren’t you? You are the righteous party here, clearly. Everyone else hates you, so they deserve your hate and loathing and are just not..-worthy- of your time.
That’s what you give off to me, drysift, by your attitude.
Regardless of the attempt at a close, guess what – I responded to them yesterday!
“Before I reply to your statement in full, do you have any evidence regarding the police supposedly dumping homeless off at San Diego, and are you going to answer my question about your opinions on the use of physical force on the part of those in occupy to disrupt what they see as hostile questioning and filming?I’m giving you an open forum. I’m posting your entire comments, I’m linking to relevant source material, and I’m very willing to debate on even ground. Why else would I post all the sources if I were a republican hack only interested in belittling?We aren’t the only ones looking at the blog, by the way. 26 people in the last 12 hours alone have read the specific post. I have 216 subscribers, and at least 100 unique people listen to any one podcast that I do. You have a chance to reach people and make a case, if you so choose.To be 100% clear – I am willing to post your full reply along with any links that you care to share presenting evidence or cases of evidence. It’s your choice.
It didn’t take them long to respond.
“Google lotion man, the proof is in the video, find it. I never asked for an open forum. I don’t want to be on your lonely blog, and I could reach more than 100 people in my sleep. Post more comments revealing BacktoAmerica’s “venom,” and you MIGHT earn my respect. Until then, no, I’m not answering any more of your questions.Now kindly dismiss yourself.”
Once. Again. I apparently must continue to jump through hoops and off tangential cliffs in order to get a response. For the record, folks, lotionman is a man… FROM OCCUPY NEW YORK. Not San Diego! drysift – I’m done for today. I’ve rebutted, sourced, and written enough into the darkness without getting any meaningful, actual reply. It’s –your- turn. I want links. I want specific citations. I would appreciate a response similar to the manner in which I have responded to you, as would my audience and others simply trying to figure out what the heck you folks stand for.
I don’t even care about the insults and name calling at this point. You’re only damaging yourself. I am giving you one more chance. Will you finally reply to my statements, or am I just going to get back another paragraph that further shunts us off topic?
Audience – I heartily encourage you to share your thoughts below. As stated..manymany times, I don’t censor. How fair have I been? What do you think of drysift? Of BacktoAmerica? How would you compare the two?
Now here’s something to make you all laugh. Lord knows I needed it after that!